Post by Dark Emperor on Aug 4, 2014 0:09:07 GMT -5
Dude, i am not going to criticize you one bit for what you have just said. This issue with Paige is the prime example of not really the diehard fans vs the casual fans, but it is like the fans that take the time to educate themselves on a talent, and by that education, they know what a talent can really do vs those that sit back, and allow what they see on TV to tell them how a person should be and how great the talent is. What you stated in your post, although long winded even though i think those are the best posts because they are the most thought out and passionate in my opinion at least, leads me to the post that i made a few days ago concerning this issue. I believe that you have read it. I hit on points 3 and 4, but i am going to allow you post to let me hit on points one and two which i believe i can explain them together. those points were:
1. Booking and persona presentation
2. Mic skills
Now clearly no one on this forum could call themselves a "wrestling expert". We are all just fans that love wrestling. But some, via their experience watching one company or watching a multitude of different wrestling companies like i have done that gives you a more well rounded view of Professional Wrestling, have a more passionate fan's perspective on what make a wrestler great. I think that we all can agree with the way someone is portrayed in the wrestling ring can have a bearing on how we think of them. How a persona has been booked can make a statement on the perceptions that we make on the quality of a wrestler. I firmly believe that because of my well rounded view of wrestling, i think that it warrants me to look at someone's body of work to determine how great they are or can become. When i look at someone like Paige and hear the stories of how this woman can take The Divas Division, it makes me have a desire to look into their past to find out why this person has so much of a buzz as it pertains to them. When looking at her stuff on NXT and on the independent scene as Britani Knight, I can see why there is this hype on her. I can see how people who support Paige can be justified as to how they feel on her being a "Savior" of a division. What her body of work tells me is that she can be someone that can lead The Divas Division into a new era. Now i will preface that comment by saying that she cannot do it alone. She will need the help of an Emma, but not this Emma we see on WWE TV. No, the Emma from NXT that showed great wrestling prowess and also had a very serious side to her personality. She will need a Sasha Banks, a liberated Summer Rae, An improved Charlotte, A Bailey. Even a reuniting of The Knight Dynasty by partnering her back up with Becky Lynch. She will also need the help of veterans like a Tamina, Natalya, and A.J. Lee to help steer the course of a much more WRESTLING ORIENTED Divas Division. Even though she does need the help, she is also someone that can be the face of what the division will become under a Triple H and Stephanie ruled WWE. But once again, her body of work dictates to me that she has it in her to be that person. She, i think is a savior for the division, but not on your traditional sense, but a savior as far as the face that is placed as the on camera figurehead of a new era of women's wrestling made possible by a change of Diva Philosophy by those that either are in power, or will be in complete and total power, (HHH And Stephanie) sooner rather than later. If the "Savior" tag is going to be placed on her, then it should be used as a means of saying that she is the face of a new era ushered in by THE REAL SAVIORS HHH AND STEPHANIE. There is a term for this concept, but i have forgotten what it is. Maybe those on this forum can help me out on this if you are a fan of politics, have some political science degree, or a fan of Alex Jones conspiracy theory rhetoric because it is word political terminology.
Little known fact. The WWE World Divas Wrestling Championship is her 12th championship overall in the business as a whole. To me that states that she can be that face of a division while still recognizing the fact that their are other crucial pieces that need to be placed in the division to showcase a possible new genesis of the division.
Also, the way your are presented to the audience via booking can also have an effect on how you promo. Clearly anyone can see that her earlier main roster stuff was not the stuff that makes future legends and hall of famers. We can tell that her earlier main roster stuff is something that can be cringed at. But the fact of the matter is that when you are booked to be someone that clearly you should not be, then it would make, even the best of wrestling greats, not live up to any hype that has come their way. People have referenced this stuff happening with Paige to what happened with The Rock when he was Rocky Maivia. The Rock, just like Paige, was slapped with a persona that just did not fit who he was. It did not fit with what he could have been. The same can be said about Stone Cold Steve Austin. Do you all remember that bland Ringmaster persona he had? Looking back at it, clearly someone in booking did not have their head on straight when coming up with that one. That dude could not speak worth a lick. No wonder he needed a mouthpiece. Since i was born in the 80s, 1981 to be exact, allow me to take this a bit old school. Allow me to show you some promos of wrestlers from that time period. i think i will keep it shortened to five wrestlers who in their own way was the best of delivering promos, and they did it by just being themselves or what they should be in order to be truly successful in the business:
1 "The Universal Heartthrob" Austin Idol:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_H8RSTjUU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4A7KW_c414
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPhIIPArlTA
2. The Road Warriors:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipquf9u5tw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqHlOOJsBp8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng6kpHpcfdY
3. Nick Bockwinkel:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXkXjfiJQ0g
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nBVTkqzG58
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHM4NgQz5Q
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0jvCtQsWa4
4. Tully Blanchard
www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-a-JJWjTn4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-r3hhva3k
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNKTsB7I27U
5. Ric Flair
www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5foFwkIPm4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9enMPQtsdA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=clgiX7Tqvdg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JG7xyZAMww
These guys, among others, were some of the best at promo cutting. And they did it by just being themselves or just being whom they believed better suited them for success. If they were told to be someone else, i really do not believe that any of them would have been successful or nearly as successful as they are now. The problem with wrestling today as it pertains to the product of the past is their is way too much involvement of what the company wants for what they perceive is what will make a wrestler one of the greatest ever instead of allowing the wrestler's own natural personality give a company one of its greatest stars. Verne Gagne was a master of using someone's natural personality to get them over. To my knowledge, he never put a "Persona" on someone. Every personality that got over in Verne Gagne's AWA was due to the fact of them being themselves. It was due to the fact that they were being someone that was naturally brought out be Verne himself. Natural personality defeats company placed personas because it lends more towards the authenticity of a wrestler. Clearly how Paige was originally booked was the desires of a booking committee that just wanted her to be as vanilla as possible. They did not want to make her be someone that closely resonated with her natural personality as a wrestler. Now i bet that some of you will say: "Well if she is as good as people claim that she was then she should have made vanilla gold?" Well, even though you may be telling the truth in theory, there is really only one thing good about vanilla and that is ice cream. With the vanilla persona that Paige had when she debuted on the main roster, i really do not even think that the greatest wrestler of all time, "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair could make that persona gold. JUST SAYING!
1. Booking and persona presentation
2. Mic skills
Now clearly no one on this forum could call themselves a "wrestling expert". We are all just fans that love wrestling. But some, via their experience watching one company or watching a multitude of different wrestling companies like i have done that gives you a more well rounded view of Professional Wrestling, have a more passionate fan's perspective on what make a wrestler great. I think that we all can agree with the way someone is portrayed in the wrestling ring can have a bearing on how we think of them. How a persona has been booked can make a statement on the perceptions that we make on the quality of a wrestler. I firmly believe that because of my well rounded view of wrestling, i think that it warrants me to look at someone's body of work to determine how great they are or can become. When i look at someone like Paige and hear the stories of how this woman can take The Divas Division, it makes me have a desire to look into their past to find out why this person has so much of a buzz as it pertains to them. When looking at her stuff on NXT and on the independent scene as Britani Knight, I can see why there is this hype on her. I can see how people who support Paige can be justified as to how they feel on her being a "Savior" of a division. What her body of work tells me is that she can be someone that can lead The Divas Division into a new era. Now i will preface that comment by saying that she cannot do it alone. She will need the help of an Emma, but not this Emma we see on WWE TV. No, the Emma from NXT that showed great wrestling prowess and also had a very serious side to her personality. She will need a Sasha Banks, a liberated Summer Rae, An improved Charlotte, A Bailey. Even a reuniting of The Knight Dynasty by partnering her back up with Becky Lynch. She will also need the help of veterans like a Tamina, Natalya, and A.J. Lee to help steer the course of a much more WRESTLING ORIENTED Divas Division. Even though she does need the help, she is also someone that can be the face of what the division will become under a Triple H and Stephanie ruled WWE. But once again, her body of work dictates to me that she has it in her to be that person. She, i think is a savior for the division, but not on your traditional sense, but a savior as far as the face that is placed as the on camera figurehead of a new era of women's wrestling made possible by a change of Diva Philosophy by those that either are in power, or will be in complete and total power, (HHH And Stephanie) sooner rather than later. If the "Savior" tag is going to be placed on her, then it should be used as a means of saying that she is the face of a new era ushered in by THE REAL SAVIORS HHH AND STEPHANIE. There is a term for this concept, but i have forgotten what it is. Maybe those on this forum can help me out on this if you are a fan of politics, have some political science degree, or a fan of Alex Jones conspiracy theory rhetoric because it is word political terminology.
Little known fact. The WWE World Divas Wrestling Championship is her 12th championship overall in the business as a whole. To me that states that she can be that face of a division while still recognizing the fact that their are other crucial pieces that need to be placed in the division to showcase a possible new genesis of the division.
Also, the way your are presented to the audience via booking can also have an effect on how you promo. Clearly anyone can see that her earlier main roster stuff was not the stuff that makes future legends and hall of famers. We can tell that her earlier main roster stuff is something that can be cringed at. But the fact of the matter is that when you are booked to be someone that clearly you should not be, then it would make, even the best of wrestling greats, not live up to any hype that has come their way. People have referenced this stuff happening with Paige to what happened with The Rock when he was Rocky Maivia. The Rock, just like Paige, was slapped with a persona that just did not fit who he was. It did not fit with what he could have been. The same can be said about Stone Cold Steve Austin. Do you all remember that bland Ringmaster persona he had? Looking back at it, clearly someone in booking did not have their head on straight when coming up with that one. That dude could not speak worth a lick. No wonder he needed a mouthpiece. Since i was born in the 80s, 1981 to be exact, allow me to take this a bit old school. Allow me to show you some promos of wrestlers from that time period. i think i will keep it shortened to five wrestlers who in their own way was the best of delivering promos, and they did it by just being themselves or what they should be in order to be truly successful in the business:
1 "The Universal Heartthrob" Austin Idol:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_H8RSTjUU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4A7KW_c414
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPhIIPArlTA
2. The Road Warriors:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipquf9u5tw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqHlOOJsBp8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng6kpHpcfdY
3. Nick Bockwinkel:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXkXjfiJQ0g
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nBVTkqzG58
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHM4NgQz5Q
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0jvCtQsWa4
4. Tully Blanchard
www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-a-JJWjTn4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-r3hhva3k
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNKTsB7I27U
5. Ric Flair
www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5foFwkIPm4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9enMPQtsdA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=clgiX7Tqvdg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JG7xyZAMww
These guys, among others, were some of the best at promo cutting. And they did it by just being themselves or just being whom they believed better suited them for success. If they were told to be someone else, i really do not believe that any of them would have been successful or nearly as successful as they are now. The problem with wrestling today as it pertains to the product of the past is their is way too much involvement of what the company wants for what they perceive is what will make a wrestler one of the greatest ever instead of allowing the wrestler's own natural personality give a company one of its greatest stars. Verne Gagne was a master of using someone's natural personality to get them over. To my knowledge, he never put a "Persona" on someone. Every personality that got over in Verne Gagne's AWA was due to the fact of them being themselves. It was due to the fact that they were being someone that was naturally brought out be Verne himself. Natural personality defeats company placed personas because it lends more towards the authenticity of a wrestler. Clearly how Paige was originally booked was the desires of a booking committee that just wanted her to be as vanilla as possible. They did not want to make her be someone that closely resonated with her natural personality as a wrestler. Now i bet that some of you will say: "Well if she is as good as people claim that she was then she should have made vanilla gold?" Well, even though you may be telling the truth in theory, there is really only one thing good about vanilla and that is ice cream. With the vanilla persona that Paige had when she debuted on the main roster, i really do not even think that the greatest wrestler of all time, "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair could make that persona gold. JUST SAYING!